Happy Fourth of July weekend! This Saturday, the United States of America turns 250 and, by my calculations, Louis Armstrong turns 125 (as I truly believe he was born July 4, 1901, a subject for another day. WKCR 89.9 FM is doing their usual 24 hours of Pops (which can you listen to online here), but we always like to share a little gift of our own from the Archives–so here ’tis!
Last month, we spent three whole posts chronocling the maving of the album Ambassador Satch, which was released 70 years ago (here are links to Part 1, Part 2, and Part 3 if you missed them). On June 16, Armstrong performed at the Crystal Palace on Paw Paw Lake in Coloma, Michigan, about ten miles outside of Benton Harbor. Here’s an ad I grabbed off of Newspapers.com:
Armstrong was staying in Room 522 at the Vincent Place, a hotel in Benton Harbor that is still in business! (Quick, someone tell them and rename Room 522 for Louis!). It was tehre that Armstrong was visited by two guests from WHFB, Benton Harbor’s local radio station (still serving Southwest Michigan in 2026). One was disc jockey Joe Jeru. Online searches turn up very little information on Jeru, but Michigan newspapers do show him hosting “The Joe Jeru Show” on WHFB in 1957 and 1958; after that, I found one reference to him attending a party in 1961 and that’s it. to 1957. Jeru brought along Maynard Johnson, a jazz fan who also worked for WHFB. I did find Johnson’s obituary from 1992 and it does mention that he spent several years as WHFB’s Account Manager.
More importantly, Jeru and Johnson brought a tape recorder. They apparently walked in on a buck naked Armstrong “in his birthday suit,” but after the inital surprise wore off, Jeru turned on his tape recorder and captured nearly 30 minutes with a warm, thoughtful, and occasionally intense Armstrong. I don’t know if this interview ever aired in any form–none of the Michigan papers mentioned it–but Jeru was kind enough to make a copy for Armstrong, who naturally turned the outer box into a canvas for one of his collages. Here’s the front:, featuring a photo of an unknown man (can anyone identify him?), a snapshot of Louis and press agent Ernie Anderson, and same paraphanalia from the Del Clair Motel in Carrington, North Dakota:
And here’s the back, featuring a photo of Louis, Velma Middleton and another unknown fan, as well as the words “SATCHMO INTERVIEW” written in green ink:
At this point, the simplest thing would be to share the audio and wish everyone a happy long weekend–but no, we have one more bonus. Well, for those who do want to listen and move on, here’s the audio, watermarked with beeps every 30 seconds to prevent unauthorized duplication:
LAHM 1987.3.14
Before getting to the bonus, a personal note: this is the very first tape I ever listened to during my first research trip to the Armstrong Archives in 2006. The previous year, I graduated from Rutgers with a Master’s in Jazz History and Research. My thesis was 350 pages on Armstrong’s later years, packed with research from books and magazines and interviews I did with Dan Morgenstern–but it was light on quotes from Louis. I knew about his famous tapes, but didn’t get to make it to the Archives at Queens College until January 2006. My wife and I didn’t know how to get around Queens so we got lost early on, made it to the Armstrong House, took an amazing tour, got lost again, and finally arrived at the Armstrong Archives right before they closed. Archives Assistant Lesley Zlabinger knew I had come a long way so she offered to stay a little longer to allow me to listen to one tape (the tapes had been copied to CDs) and that was it.
I was handed a giant binder with long, track-by-track descriptions of every tape. I knew my time was limited so I didn’t get very far; “Tape 14” contained the Benton Harbor interview and that sounded pretty good to me. To backtrack, the central thesis of my thesis was that Louis Armstrong was still at the top of his game in the All Stars years, even though critics had been saying his career had been steadily declining since 1929. I also had the feeling that Armstrong was a proud man and that he was tougher than folks realized, as they were lulled by his smile into thinking he was some subservient manchild.
Well, in that one 29-minute tape, I heard my entire thesis–coming from Louis Armstrong’s mouth. He was playing better than ever. He loved his mid-50s edition of the All Stars as much as I did. He fought back on notions that his music wasn’t “progressive.” He was funny, he was confident. It was everything I was looking for, a biographer’s dream. Over the next three years, I made many more research trips to the Armstrong Archives, devouring as many tapes as I could, before finally starting this job in 2009. All that research went into my first book, What a Wonderful World: The Magic of Louis Armstrong’s Later Years (which I’m happy to report will be coming out in an expanded, revised edition through Oxford University Press next year!). But it all started with Joe Jeru, Maynard Johnson, and the Benton Harbor interview.
So finally, the bonus–this is one of the tapes that I personally transcribed early on. It might not be perfect, but it’ll be closer than anything AI can deliver. I’ll occasionally break in with some added context, but here’s the full transcription of the conversation so you can read along, as you listen. Thanks for being here and Happy Birthday, Louis Armstrong (and America)!
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[My additional notes will be in bracketed italics]
Joe Jeru: Well, ladies and gentlemen, here we are in the Vincent Hotel, room 522, and we have our very favorite guest that is being featured on the jazz album, Mr. Daniel Louis, is that it? How many people say that?
Louis Armstrong: Louis Daniel Satchmo Armstrong. [LAUGHING]
[Note that Louis corrected him to Louis Daniel. No one quite knows where “Daniel Louis” came from and according to our dear reader, Marion Gustowski, he bristled when folks assumed his first name was Daniel.]
Joe Jeru: And thanks to our salesman, Maynard Johnson, we’re up here in the bedroom, completely informal, and I think we’d be out of place with cameras, Louie. How about that?
Louis Armstrong: Well, I think so, too. I’m in my birthday suit! [LAUGHING]
Joe Jeru: We were just discussing how we were going to set this thing up, but the primary thing is going to be, Louie, are there many things that- that the listening audience doesn’t know about? I mean, I’m going back to 1900, back in New Orleans. Back to the days when you were first starting out.
Louis Armstrong: When I was born, 1900.
Joe Jeru: Well, that’s about-
Louis Armstrong: That’s when Buddy Bolden was the man in those days. And later, Joe Oliver, and that’s the man of my time. And Bunk Johnson.
Joe Jeru: Bunk Johnson.
Louis Armstrong: Yeah, I- I commence to noticing those cats when I was five years old. That’s when I heard Buddy Bolden. He- they used to play on the sidewalk in front of the dancehall before they go inside, about a half hour, see? And that’s- that’d give us kids the- to listen to them, you know? I was in dresses, but still in all our- before we went to bed, we could have a half hour of that music, you know? Because we couldn’t go in the hall, we wasn’t allowed in the hall, see?
Joe Jeru: I see.
Louis Armstrong: And that’s why I got a chance to hear the- them good old pioneers like Buddy Bolden and Frankie Duson, Bob Lyons, and oh, way back then. And later, Joe Oliver and-
Joe Jeru: What about Jelly Roll?
Louis Armstrong: Then- Kid- Kid- well, Jelly Roll, he was playing in Lulu White’s, that’s the Mahogany Hall, you remember? He was a piano man in that house. He made more money than anybody here. But later, come Kid Ory and those boys in my time. I didn’t meet Jelly Roll until 1935 in Chicago, and he had been in California all that time, see?
Joe Jeru: What-
Louis Armstrong: He left New Orleans in 1915. I was just fifteen years old.
Joe Jeru: Excuse me, when was the first time in your life that you actually picked up a horn?
Louis Armstrong: Oh, that was later, when I went to the orphanage. I was about thirteen.
Joe Jeru: That was the New Orleans Waifs’ Home, right?
Louis Armstrong: Waifs’ Home, yeah. And first, they made me bugler of the institution, and I had to- a lot of Joe Oliver was instilled in me by the second lining in the parade, you know?: And holding this horn while we was resting, you know, when the band- while the drummer was [SCATTING]. And by the time they get ready to go into one of them hard-hitting numbers like “Panama,” I’d hand him his cornet, you see? And the policeman couldn’t run me out of the parade then because I was with Joe Oliver. So when they taught me how to play the cornet in the orphanage, well, I had a lot of that in my knowledge, you know, because I really enjoyed listening to his horn, you see? So it wasn’t hard for me to learn the cornet at all.
Joe Jeru: Well, did you ever actually study music, or did it all come from inside?
Louis Armstrong: Yeah. Well, no, they taught you music in the orphanage, and then when I got out, I was about fourteen years old and run into Joe Oliver again, and he helped me with my music lessons while I run errands for his wife, you know, Mrs. Oliver. And I’d be around lunchtime there and get them red beans and rice and I’d eat with him, and I thought I was a king.
Joe Jeru: You think they’ll ever- have they ever asked you to do a Louis Armstrong story for Hollywood or- like they’ve done Benny Goodman and so on?
Louis Armstrong: Yeah. Well, I told them it’d be nice, but I ain’t stopped living yet. I told them to wait a while. [LAUGHING]
Joe Jeru: Well, I think-
Louis Armstrong: I’m just beginning to get that horn out of second gear, there! After forty years.
Joe Jeru: Louis, you attribute that partly to that diet that you were showing us?
Louis Armstrong: Well, the diet is- is concluded in there because my mother always had us physic-minded when we were kids. She said, “You’ll probably never get rich, but you’ll always get- stay healthy, ” you know? That’s why I always thought that some kind of laxative means so much to the average human being, let alone a musician.
Joe Jeru: Well, I might explain right here, if you’ll excuse me a minute, Louis, Maynard Johnson and myself were just handed these charts. And they’re compliments of Satchmo for all his listeners, and it’s how to lose weight.
[This was really the start of Armstrong’s diet obsession. He had lost 90 pounds in the previous two years thanks to the herbal laxative Swiss Kriss and typed up his own diet chart to hand out to fans to show them how he lost the weight. Here is an early one probably similar to the one he showed Joe Jeru.]
Louis Armstrong: Fat ones. Fat ones, tell them. For all the fat ones, especially, and then the lean ones could use it for health sake. That’s what I do. I lost a hundred pounds with this chart, and I made it up myself, and it’s nothing but the herbal laxative and something to cut the gas from your foods, and- well, orange juice, we usually love orange juice. You know, people just live on orange juice itself is a diet. I remember when Big Sid was playing drums in my band and he had a lot of difficulties there, troubles in weight and everything. The doctor put him on an orange juice diet when he was in Billy Berg’s in Hollywood- And in less than two weeks time he looked like a new man, you see? And he felt strong because orange juice is full of vitamins; you don’t have to worry about anything. You get used to orange juice and make it a part of you like you should, why, when you- when you drink a glass of orange juice, the- the jive spot where you think you want something to eat and you know you shouldn’t and you drink orange juice in place, that- that make you feel like you done had two pork chops, man. You know? [LAUGHING] And it’s- as long as you jive your stomach such as eating at night before going to bed, how many people don’t realize that’s where their weight pick up? You have nothing to throw that food off.
Joe Jeru: Well, I’m going to give them the address of this chart, if I may, Satch.
Louis Armstrong: It’s up to you.
Joe Jeru: Satchmo Diet Charts in care of Joe Glaser, 745 5th Avenue, New York City, New York, in the U.S.A. The U.S.A., of course, is for the benefit of all the people in Africa. What- what about that?
Louis Armstrong: Yeah, I straightened them out there, you know. They- they had a lot of herbs down there, too, you know. And then, I guess, a lot of that Swiss Kriss came from down there, you know?
Joe Jeru: Well, I hear you drove them nuts with the music, too. I mean, not just the diet.
Louis Armstrong: Yeah. Yeah, I straightened them, too, on the diet. [LAUGHING] I had them running all kind of ways, musically and sputterly! [LAUGHING] I had a wonderful time down there, though.
Joe Jeru: I take it you did.
Louis Armstrong: They had about nine tribes down there, dance- that had come from miles away just to dance for us. And in one of those tribes, they had a chick swinging there that looked just like my mother, man. I made the camera man call her over here and let her put a couple of wicky-wacky-woos on there for me. [LAUGHING]
Joe Jeru: Well, who has the pictures on this? Was it a news reel department, or what?
Louis Armstrong: Edward R. Murrow.
Joe Jeru: Edward R. Murrow was down there?
Louis Armstrong: Yeah, you’re liable to see it on the news reel.
Joe Jeru: Good. Maynard, Do you have any questions, musically, about- probably a lot of things killing everybody to ask?
Maynard Johnson: Well, not so much musically, Joe. I’d like to ask Satch here if that’s the famous trumpet laying right over there on the- the trumpet I’ve heard so much about.
Louis Armstrong: Yeah, I’m getting ready to- to give him his wash out. Yeah, that’s the little Satchmo trumpet there.
Joe Jeru: Yeah, that’s the first thing we noticed.
Maynard Johnson: I would like to say here, is how courteous Louie was this morning when I first came up here at the unheard of hour of eight-thirty to ask him if we could come down and have a little chat with him this morning while he’s in town because we don’t get, oh, a famous personality like ol’ Satch here that stays around long enough, usually, for us to be able to interview. And I just want to say right now, it’s awfully appreciated. It certainly is.
Louis Armstrong: Yeah. Well, it’s kicks, man.
Joe Jeru: Well, I- that’s the first thing I think we both noticed, Maynard, because you and I were both were light on top of it. I called him this morning and Louis said, “It’s ten-thirty, where’ve you been?”
Louis Armstrong: Yeah. Well, I was waiting for ya, I thought I’d run under the shower, straighten out lots there.
Joe Jeru: I noticed you’re wearing a Star of David. Where’d you pick that up?
Louis Armstrong: Yeah. Well- well, you know, my best friend gave me this. He’s a jeweler in- in California, see? And by me being one of the boys, you know? [LAUGHING]
[The jewel Armstrong is referring to is Abe Donin, who made him a custom necklace with a Star of David on one side and a St. Christopher’s medallion on the other. Louis gave his son, Abe Donin, a trumpet. Abe Donin passed away a few years ago and his trumpet was auctioned off in 2020 by Sotheby’s. Armstrong’s line about “me being one of the boys” is a reference to him associating himself with Jewish people dating back to his early years with the Karnofsky family in New Orleans, but it should be noted that he never formally converted.]
Louis Armstrong: I noticed the pennies in Africa had a Star of David on them. The big pennies.
[This is true, too; here’s a link to see one.]
Joe Jeru: Oh, is that right?
Louis Armstrong: Yes, they did. I had one, somebody looked at it too long, I think they forgot whose pocket it belong in. I think they kept it! [LAUGHING] You know, you autograph or a picture or something and give somebody a pen, you know, and they’d take it as a souvenir, you know.
Joe Jeru: Well, there was a fellow last night that said he’d give his eye teeth. He’s a Dixie enthusiast from way back and his father was, too. He wanted to know what happened- what’s happened to Jack Teagarden lately?
Louis Armstrong: Jack’s in Hollywood. He’s doing good. He had his own band and I think he’s doing a single now, you know. Jack is a legend, I mean, whether he played in a band or whatever it is, he’s still Jack.
Joe Jeru: The name is there.
Louis Armstrong: When he picks up that horn, you know who it is, you know?
Joe Jeru: That’s right.
Louis Armstrong: Oh, yeah. He don’t have to worry about nothing, musically.
Joe Jeru: I saw Kid Ory at The Hangover Club when I was in San Francisco. Now, isn’t he old enough just about to be your father, Louis?
Louis Armstrong: Well, you know, I’m going to say yes! [LAUGHING] Yeah. Well, I was playing with him when I was a kid. He used to call me “Little Louie,” when- like a little boy, like Joe Oliver, and then they had two jobs. You know, sometimes they’d sign up two jobs and they needed a little cornet player. They said, “Go down there and get Little Louis down here,” you know? So I was a little bitty boy when I went into Ory’s band because Joe Oliver and Jimmie- Jimmie Noone, they went to Chicago in 1918. And I was the only one available to take Joe’s place in that band, Kid Ory’s band. It was Ory and Oliver’s band, and they had some band.
Joe Jeru: Was- the “Blues For Jimmie Noone” by Kid Ory, was that written after Jimmie’s death?
Louis Armstrong: Well, did Jimmie play it? No. Well, he couldn’t have played it.
Joe Jeru: I have the Kid Ory side and it’s “Blues For Jimmie Noone.” I was wondering if that was written in the-
Louis Armstrong: That, I don’t know. It might be a tune in memory of Jimmie Noone. Could be, you know? And probably- you listen at the clarinet? Maybe Jimmie Noone’s playing on there. You cannot tell.
Joe Jeru: It doesn’t list the same, but- no, it couldn’t be. It was recorded in 1945.
Louis Armstrong: Well, he died in California, somewhere there. And Ory was out there at that time, you know?
Joe Jeru: Oh, yeah?
Louis Armstrong: So, they had a lot of jam sessions and I saw in the magazines where Jimmie was, you know, yawning like a man that’s very tired, you know?
Joe Jeru: What did he die from?
Louis Armstrong: Not taking his gappings. Not taking care of himself.
Joe Jeru: Just letting it go.
Louis Armstrong: That’s what they all died from.
Joe Jeru: Bunny Berigan?
Louis Armstrong: What did Bix die of? What did Bunny? Name all of them outside of a couple of boys that had accidents like Chu Berry and them boys, but- and then- and then Big Sid, that boy was too young to die, man. See what I mean?
Joe Jeru: Thirty-one years old. I just did the Bunny Berigan show the other night.
Louis Armstrong: You know, like they say, the Lord help the poor, but not the poor, lazy, you know? Man too lazy to do something for himself, what’d you expect? A man can’t do everything for you. See? Everything I got on this chart, I- I put that on there, I’d- yeah, up here, you know?
Joe Jeru: By experimenting, too.
Louis Armstrong: Yeah. It all comes from experience and observed which one was the best. Like, I have some lip salve that I put on my lips, you know, to relax the lips and keep them moist. You know, and you can go out there and- and that weather will split your chops like a pig feet. That ain’t good for a trumpet. So, the- and then by keeping them moist, it strengthens them. So, you’ll give a trumpet player a- a can of that, which I think, to me, is giving them, like, a hundred dollars. I mean, that’s how precious I think it is. If you believe in something, I mean, you know, some people just don’t believe in nothing. So, I’ve come back six months or a year later and that guy says, “You know, I got that can of salve you gave me and I done used about three hundred cans.” See, the difference? So, like this- the ingredients that’s in this diet chart, understand?
Joe Jeru: Yeah.
Louis Armstrong: I observed when it did me some good. And I kept that in and this and that, and I figured that’s all you need to live.
Joe Jeru: And there’s no charge for this. I’ll repeat the address afterwards.
Louis Armstrong: That’s right. So, why wait until you get sick to do them things, you know? That’s what you call prevention. So why should I get sick? I have no reason to get sick at no time. We make shows rain, snow, sleet. Make planes and everything. And hit it right on the nose, see what I mean? And you get your rest and you live like you’re supposed to live. Why? Because you feel good.
Joe Jeru: Good reason. When someone come in this early and you’re- you’re still feeling good-
Louis Armstrong: If I had to do a show right now, I’d be straight. I’ve got my horn out, ain’t it? I’m fixin’ to put some water in there. If I put water in it, you can bet I’m going to blow it. And if I blow it here, you know I’m going to blow it at the concert. See what I mean? You check up on every little thing that’s happening. Well, the average musician in areas, that’s why you get some of the styles from cats that didn’t warm up properly, didn’t take care of the chops, see that they didn’t swell. Because if your lips swell up a fraction from the mouthpiece, you’re in trouble. How many knows how to maneuver, you know, playing forty-three years and if I say it myself, I don’t have to wait for the people to say it, I know I’m playing better than I did. I got ears, too. Or else I would have put it down years ago.
Joe Jeru: You’re improving each year-
Louis Armstrong: I ain’t jiving myself because ain’t nobody but me and my wife, and we sure don’t need the money.
Joe Jeru: Well, I mentioned last night-
Louis Armstrong: I mean, to that extent, I don’t need a million dollars. I got a million dollars because I got health. When you got health, you got wealth. That’s all. Because I know from experience, for three years the doctor had me thinking I had ulcers and I know I didn’t. Because you don’t stand up there every night and playing them high notes with ulcers, you know?
Joe Jeru: Well, I mentioned-
Louis Armstrong: But I know there was something that he wasn’t taking care of, and come to find out it was nothing but gas, man. And gas will take you away from here before you can say lickety-split.
Joe Jeru: I mentioned the other night, Louie, about- you said your- pardon me, blowing better each time. I mean, as the time goes on.
Louis Armstrong: That’s right. I’m-I’m my own audience.
Joe Jeru: I’m glad you said that because the other night I said I didn’t have any rare collector’s items, but what’s the use? I have things recorded at the Crescendo in 1955, for example, and last year, I think, is just as good or even better than the old ones.
Louis Armstrong: Okay, but you can get a later album than that, Ambassador Satch that I made in Milano, Italy just coming out here. It’s better than the Crescendo. Dig that.
Joe Jeru: Who was with you on this trip?
Louis Armstrong: And we made that album after the third concert in Milano. We did three concerts that day, with intermission included, and one o’clock that night, we began to record this Ambassador Satch. And at five o’clock in the morning, we wailin’ “West End Blues.” See what I mean? And “Tiger Rag,” you ain’t never heard Tiger Rag in your life like them cats, you know what I mean? The longer they played- well, that’s what I’m talking about. If you didn’t feel good, you couldn’t do that. You can’t force those things.
Joe Jeru: We’ve got to mention that Louie is here- we’ve been telling you for the last two programs of that jazz album, that Louie was here at The Crystal Palace, coming out, and would you like to tell us who’s with you on this trip? Is Trummy with you?
Louis Armstrong: Yeah. Same band, Trummy Young on trombone, we got Billy Kyle, piano; Dale Jones, bass; Edmond Hall, clarinet; and Barrett Deems, drums; and myself on trumpet and Velma Middleton, our vocalist, still with us.
Joe Jeru: Oh, is she traveling with you, too?
Louis Armstrong: Yeah, sure.
Joe Jeru: She’s too much.
Louis Armstrong: Yeah. She’s on that diet.
Joe Jeru: Is she really? She lost any weight?
Louis Armstrong: The smaller that she gets, the prettier she’s getting, you know?
Joe Jeru: Oh, yeah.
Louis Armstrong: Yeah. And- and we’re doing it in a way that you don’t pay no attention, you know what I mean? But you just going through the routine and feeling good, but you’re losing that weight.
Joe Jeru: Well, you’ve just come from Geneva, Wisconsin. We’d like to tell them just about where you’re going to go.
Louis Armstrong: Well, tomorrow we’re playing Indianapolis. Tomorrow.
Joe Jeru: You’re going to leave right after the gig tonight?
Louis Armstrong: Yeah. Yeah, we’ll pack up. When we get up this evening, we’re going to load up the bus. So we’ll cut right out after the dance. See?
Joe Jeru: You plan on going overseas again soon?
Louis Armstrong: Well, I don’t think we’re going. We got a lot of dates here in the country we’re going to do, but still in all, when in time, they’re ready. You know, because the way we play music, we’re going to- it’s not- we don’t care where it is. I mean, where the- whether it’s in Guadelupe, Russia, or Egypt, you know what I mean. We’re- we’re musicians, same as when I was driving a coal cart, you know? I’d load up my cart and take it up to Mrs. Wingate’s, you know, and then dump that load and come on back to the yard and get another one, you know? [LAUGHING] We come back and get some more dates, we don’t care where. And that- by that, we enjoy our music because we don’t believe in vacations. See, that’s what’s ruined a lot of music. I was fixin’ to explain that way in the back there, about the things like that. Musician get too carried away over with the success and wealth, and then they lay off their horn about four, five years and expect to come back and get them same notes and things that they did when they first put it down aou can’t do it.
Joe Jeru: It would take them that much time to get back.
Louis Armstrong: You don’t put nothing down, that goes for fighters, runners, or whatever they’re doing. If you don’t stay with it, you come back after a long lapse, you in trouble. I don’t care what you’re doing. Isn’t that funny? Even a piano player,a drummer, the fingers get stiff. Now, you imagine a cat’s chops, he ain’t touch his horn for six months or- or- I just say six months, let alone years.
Joe Jeru: Was there anyone very prominent that ever was a victim of that? To lay it down-
Louis Armstrong: Well, you figure it out. You can hear the records, a lot of them cats that been laying out on them beaches there with a lot of loot. Dig it. You call them. I don’t have to call them.
[My instinct tells me this is a dig at Benny Goodman, who came out of semi-retirement for a disastrous tour with Armstrong in 1953.]
Joe Jeru: Well, I think- you have something to say, Maynard?
Maynard Johnson: Oh, I just wondered, Joe, Louie mentioned a minute ago on his travels, maybe going overseas, about Russia, and I wonder, have you got- still got hopes to get over there, Louis? What’s kind of the pitch on there?
Louis Armstrong: Well, it’s the onliest thing, it’s the onliest thing thing you’ve got to realize, they say the Russians don’t like music. See what I mean?
Maynard Johnson: I don’t think that’s true.
Louis Armstrong: Well, it’s all I could prove different because when they come over the Iron Curtain to hear us when we play Berlin, taking a chance on getting shot and everything, but they got to hear “our Louie.” The hot clubs, fans in every country, you don’t even know the language, but the minute you pick up the horn and start blowing-
Joe Jeru: The universal language.
Louis Armstrong: There you go. And that’s all it is. I mean, like they say, well, how about them four boys- the- what that four- was in a conference in Geneva? The cats there? And I told them, I said if they can blow, it’s all right with me. They can get in my band. [LAUGHING]
Louis Armstrong: That cat can wail there!
Joe Jeru: I was reading about that.
Louis Armstrong: I played “Mahogany Hall” and dedicated it to Prince [sic] Margaret. I mean, she wouldn’t be there if she wasn’t a fan. I mean, she wouldn’t know me from Adams, to that extent. But it’s the music, see? Same for that goes, you’ll hear Sir Thomas Beecham. I could be sitting there, nobody have to know I’m there. I mean, I enjoy the same music. How many people know that I played the symphony orchestra myself?
1925, I played for silent pictures at The Vendome in Chicago. See what I mean?
Joe Jeru: You want to repeat that?
Louis Armstrong: I played in the symphony orchestra in Chicago, 1925, for silent pictures. I had to play music for the film. You know, you play a whole lot of music cuing one of them pictures. Like- like Moby Dick and John- John Barrymore played Moby Dick in that- and that whale bit his leg off. We had to blow, man! You know, [SCATTING]. I played all that stuff.
[John Barrymore’s film “The Sea Beast” was shown at the Vendome Theater in May 1926 when Armstrong was with Erskine Tate.]
Louis Armstrong: And every Sunday, one of the men in the orchestra would get up and play a solo, see? Who knows that my solo was Cavallaria Rusticana, the “Intermezzo”? I expressed it my way and, you know, against that symphony music. And one of these days you’ll hear that.
Joe Jeru: Well, that- now, that’s something that I don’t think many disc jockeys have been finding out.
Louis Armstrong: That’s what I mean, there’s a whole lot of fans. I mean, a musician is supposed to be flexible. He- he ain’t supposed to just play everything that he done learned on his horn. I mean, he’s supposed to live- when the time come for me to play a solo at church, it’s all right. I did that, too. I mean, occasion, that’s where you played that on. A funeral, see? You radiate sadness, your music express that. When you play [SINGING] “flee as a bird in the mountain.” Taking them to the cemetery, see? And everybody is very serious, see, listening to that band. And when they put him in the ground then say their little speech over him and everything. And the- the snare drum player takes the handkerchief from under the little snares, and then he rolls up the drum, and the bass drum, boom, boom, boom. [SINGING] “Didn’t he ramble?” Going frm the cemetery, and everybody’s jumpin’. See? They rejoice after they hear that. Then, it’s all over.
Joe Jeru: We’ve got a record of Jelly Roll telling about the funerals, how different that they were then.
Louis Armstrong: Sure. You can-
Joe Jeru: They rejoice more.
Louis Armstrong: You can live by music. Yeah, your moods and everything. That’s why when they say, “What kind of music you all play?” I say, “We play good music.” Just any kind, ain’t no styles. That’s the worst thing in the world. It ruined so many musicians when all these styles came up.
Joe Jeru: What do you think of progressive music, Louie?
Louis Armstrong: Well, that’s what I’m trying to find. What is progressive music? Huh? Now, you explain, what is progressive music? We were just trying to play good music.
Joe Jeru: Well-
Louis Armstrong: Now, what- what would be progressive music? A whole lot of stiff arrangements that the untrained ear can’t understand.
Joe Jeru: Well, I think-
Louis Armstrong: What’s any more progressive than my “Blueberry Hill”?
Joe Jeru: I see what you mean.
Louis Armstrong: “La Vie en Rose.” “C’est Si Bon.” What’s more progressive? They going to call me if they’re going to do anything that there- the world at least understands the story. But when the cats blowin’ and prayin’ to God he hit the note because it’s written on paper-Now, you going to call that a style for the youngsters to adopt? They wouldn’t know what the hell to pick up. See, the first thing we was taught to play lead and tonation. And they don’t- evidently ain’t teaching that nowadays, because you ain’t getting it.
Joe Jeru: Well, I said the other day-
Louis Armstrong: Cat hit a higher note, he’s got to- he got to [SCATTING]. You got to slide up and slide down, and we was taught to hit them, MOP! Right on the nose.
Joe Jeru: I mentioned the other night-
Louis Armstrong: And the day I stop hitting them on the nose, I’ll just quietly put the horn down and everybody had a good time.
Joe Jeru: That sort of backs up what I said. Anyone listening to the jazz album that doesn’t like what they’re hearing on record, doesn’t like the way these musicians feel.
Louis Armstrong: Well, some of the musicians, they- they over-doing the jazz situation, too, you know? Some of them, they yanky-tanky too much. Too much. You know, some of them are carrying too far. But you take a man like Jack Teagarden, whatever he play is good. That’s what you got to look at.
[Armstrong continued to associate the word “jazz” with “Dixieland” so his complaints about “yanky-tanky too much” are aimed at the younger, cornier Dixieland groups popping up in the 1950s.]
Joe Jeru: Well, Maynard, do you have anything to add before we-
Louis Armstrong: See, that’s the way you look at that.
Maynard Johnson: No, I just been sitting here enjoying myself listen to him talk. This man lives his music. You can tell that’s why he feels so good to do it. I mean, music is a part of his life. It’s not just a livelihood.
Louis Armstrong: Sure, you relax. That’s right.
Maynard Johnson: It’s his- it’s just his way of living.
Louis Armstrong: That’s right. The horn’s first at all times. See what I mean? Never take my mind off that horn. I don’t care if I’m at a banquet or nothing. Of course, I ain’t just above to that situation, but I never let that horn get out of my mind. And when it’s warmup time, I don’t care what I’m doing, I just pick up my horn, warm it up. See? Ain’t take nothing for granted. That’s why I can relax. That’s why I can enjoy my music every night. People say, well, you all play that same way every night? I say, every night, we play the same. The same we played last night. The cats still yelling. That’s why we’re going to wail for them tonight. And no effort because everybody- most of them sleep now, see? I’m the last one to go to bed, and I’d rather be tinkering- you’re looking. See, that- this- here it is, right up here I want to keep just a picture of the High Society. You know, the picture just come out. See, “High- High- High and Society,” you know, and things I want. So what I do now is I put Scotch tape on the back of this, the same as in the front of this- this picture, and trim it off down, see?
Joe Jeru: Well, let me explain to the listening audience-
Louis Armstrong: Well, that takes time to do that, so that- that occupies your mind. I don’t sit in my room just biting my nails. I got a typewriter there. You see I typed those diet charts. That’s the way I typed it and that’s the way the printer did it.
Joe Jeru: I might explain to the listening audience, we have a picture on the- on the room wall, picture of Bing Crosby and-
Louis Armstrong: Grace Kelly.
Joe Jeru: Grace Kelly, and Frank Sinatra, and of course Satch with his-
Louis Armstrong: My horn in the back.
Joe Jeru: Great horn. The quotation, “Not within memory have preview audience been so demonstrative in their enjoyment of a picture, High Society.”
Louis Armstrong: There you go. Now, that’s what I’m going to keep. They had a whole lot of other words under that that didn’t move me, so I just cut that off, you know? Of course they had opening this, that, and the other. See, now that’ll be my memory if I’m a hundred years old. See where it come from?
Joe Jeru: Variety.
Louis Armstrong: Variety, and the date. And that’s-
Joe Jeru: Wednesday, June 6th, 1956.
[This is one of those collages that sadly did not survive, but thanks to the Internet Archive, here is the original full page from that June 6, 1956 Variety.]
Louis Armstrong: And now, when I put Scotch tape behind this and trim all this, it’ll be just like a photograph and it stands out. You know? That’s the way I have it in my den.
Joe Jeru: What is Frank Sinatra like in person?
Louis Armstrong: Great. Just one of the boys. I mean, you know, the cats that been around Broadway and used to jam. You know how he come up with Harry James and all them boys. He’s still the same, and same as Bing when he come up in the days with Paul Whiteman in The Rhythm Boys. That’s the- that’s the life he still live. That’s why he ain’t worried about all his money, see?
Joe Jeru: How did you and Gary Crosby get together at first?
Louis Armstrong: The same as Bing, it was just time for us to wail, that’s all, walked in there and started working. [LAUGHING]
Joe Jeru: Are you going to do anymore records with Gary Crosby?
Louis Armstrong: Well, he’s got to get out of the army now, you know? See, he was supposed to go to England with me and the government said nay, nay, they better use him a while, you know? Broke old Gary’s heart, too, because we just come from Australia the day he picked up his- whatcha call it when the army calls you? He sure hated it, but he had to go. So, I figure, when we’re playing Seattle, Washington, he’s out there in Fort Lewis, see? And play Seattle, we’ll tip on down to his camp there and give him about an hour show, you know, and have him to do his numbers with us. Kill them cats, yeah.
Joe Jeru: You did that just as a personal favor?
Louis Armstrong: We do that for- yeah, for Gary. I mean, I just sat there. We’re all out there, we’ll blow our show with him, you know. And I know the commander don’t mind, they can get all them soldiers together in an hour. I’ve done it before, you know?
Joe Jeru: And- and you actually, also, have a hope, I should say, of bringing all the countries together more with your music. Or with- with music in general.
Louis Armstrong: I mean, if it- if it’s any way possible that it could be done and they’d let me do that, I’d be glad because all them people, they want to hear that horn, man, anyway, you know? It would be nice to try to see what happen. So far, we haven’t- haven’t done wrong. I haven’t been in England in twenty-one years and my ovation was the same.
Joe Jeru: After twenty-one years.
Louis Armstrong: Yeah, yeah. Even from royalty on down. There was musicians that I remembered from those days, some of them still around. They all came to pay their respect. And the Duke of Kent came in the dressing room, and after he left, about fifteen reporters run in there, “What did he say? What did he say?” I said, “Nothing no more than any other cat would.” [LAUGHING] Oh, they couldn’t get over it, you know. I gave him a diet chart, him and his chick, you know?
Joe Jeru: Well, our tape’s running out, Louie, but I sincerely want to thank you very much. [AUDIO CUTS OUT] wonderful person.
Louis Armstrong: Thank you. And tell the folks, don’t be afraid of that diet chart. See, I got a slogan, too. You know, but I wouldn’t put it on your charts. Maybe later on. [LAUGHING]
Joe Jeru: And this is Joe Jeru, speaking to you from room 522 at the Vincent Hotel in Benton Harbor.
[The slogan, which Louis used for a time in 1956 before cutting it out? “The more you shit, the thinner you’ll git!” Thanks for reading!]